Author Topic: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?  (Read 1916 times)

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Glazer

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Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« on: January 08, 2015, 01:57:42 PM »
In order for a new era to emerge, the old must collapse and be blow away like paint peeling from a soon to be smooth wooden surface. With bitcoin, we must take up the tools necessary to remove the old, inefficient ways of government, finance, and large industry in order to begin anew.

Will bitcoin bring an end to the state as we know it and usher in an unprecedented era of prosperity? It remains uncertain.

I am no blind utopian dweller, but I believe we are on the cusp of something frighteningly new. Something which has been lurking in the bellies of our economy since President Nixon took the nation's money supply off the gold standard and made not only the US, but the entire world economy backed on nothing but smoke and mirrors.


Past technological inventions destroyed the conventional governing structures such as gunpowder and the printing press. Will bitcoin do the same?

Travis Patron

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 03:45:43 PM »
I would like nothing more than to have conventional, inefficient systems blown away by disruption and innovation. I cannot say for certain if bitcoin will end the nation state as we know it, but I do believe it is possible.

Will we see radical and unimaginable change in our lifetime?  I certainly believe so ...

Che Gravos

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 05:00:12 PM »
Now you're talking a whole apocalypse scenario there guy. That's a stretch. Technologies come but the people in power will stay there until there is no power left with them.

That's just the nature of politics, the nature of the beast.

Travis Patron

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2015, 04:09:43 PM »
Now you're talking a whole apocalypse scenario there guy. That's a stretch. Technologies come but the people in power will stay there until there is no power left with them.

That's just the nature of politics, the nature of the beast.

Great shifts in trajectory are often characterized by great friction. What rises from the ashes is usually stronger than what existed previously however.

J_Smithy

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 03:48:32 PM »
I think our faith in nation state will definitely change but there is another view we might think about in relation to a complete dissolution. If we think of "nations" and their boundaries as the product of equilibria it might be that after a little bit more shifting all nations end up in an equilibrium and it is other paradigms that evolve and change. 

In this we can think of "nations" and their borders as necessary for peace and expansion but only once all lands are discovered and sufficient time has for enough decentralization and balance to form.

This becomes comparable imo to Satoshi's comments on bitcoin possibly becoming a collectible one day, less relevant, but possibly taking quite a long time to truly fade away.  I suspect he gets this concept when thinking about fiat and older types of monies. 

This is all relevant I think to the generalization of the kula ring conjecture: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/the-generalization-of-the-kula-ring-conjecture/

Travis Patron

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 01:50:16 PM »
I think our faith in nation state will definitely change but there is another view we might think about in relation to a complete dissolution. If we think of "nations" and their boundaries as the product of equilibria it might be that after a little bit more shifting all nations end up in an equilibrium and it is other paradigms that evolve and change. 

In this we can think of "nations" and their borders as necessary for peace and expansion but only once all lands are discovered and sufficient time has for enough decentralization and balance to form.

This becomes comparable imo to Satoshi's comments on bitcoin possibly becoming a collectible one day, less relevant, but possibly taking quite a long time to truly fade away.  I suspect he gets this concept when thinking about fiat and older types of monies. 

This is all relevant I think to the generalization of the kula ring conjecture: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/the-generalization-of-the-kula-ring-conjecture/

It is particularly interesting that Satoshi would describe bitcoin as a collectible because one of the few people who could possibly implement bitcoin, Nick Szabo, also describes money as a collectible in his Shelling Out: The Origins of Money.

Satoshi's white paper explicitly leaves out Nick's contributions to internet currency but mentioned smaller and less important contributions, it would seem perhaps to distance himself as an obvious candidate.

J_Smithy

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 02:35:19 PM »

It is particularly interesting that Satoshi would describe bitcoin as a collectible because one of the few people who could possibly implement bitcoin, Nick Szabo, also describes money as a collectible in his Shelling Out: The Origins of Money.

Satoshi's white paper explicitly leaves out Nick's contributions to internet currency but mentioned smaller and less important contributions, it would seem perhaps to distance himself as an obvious candidate.

From Ideal Money, "The special commodity or medium that we call money has a long and interesting history." and "...money itself is merely an artifact of practical usefulness in human societies and/or civilization." I still think its amazing how perfectly Szabo's writings explain the details of this.  Seemingly just great minds think a like.

https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/multiple-cryptographers-interested-in-ideal-money-and-baskets-of-commodities/
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The original wiki and the concept of ideal money was to peg a currency to a specific basket of commodities:

Quote
    He proposed that international exchange rates be fixed by pegging the value of each currency to a standardized basket of commodities, called the industrial consumption price index. Such a policy would curtail the ability of central banks to make monetary policy.

This is why peoples donít make a connection between the two. However we then must relevate Wei Dai (http://lesswrong.com/lw/kk5/look_for_the_next_tech_gold_rush/#comments):

Quote
    Ömy monetary policy views were firmly mainstream, which considers rapid unpredictable changes in prices, in either direction, to be a really bad thing for a currency. So I designed b-money to have a stable value relative to a basket of commodities, and until Bitcoin came along, never thought anyone might deliberately design a currency to have a fixed total supply.

It is quite amazing this connection between Ideal Money and Szabo and Dai. 

It might then beg the question, is Szabo Dai?

Basically and especially to Travis, but also anyone that is following this, wtf is going on lol!!!!???

Travis Patron

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Re: Bitcoin Leading to a Collapse of the Nation State?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 07:40:57 PM »
Szabo may be Dia and also Satoshi.

We may never know, but there is strong evidence to make a case presented right infront of us.

Good finds.